As a Brazilian who watched in 1994 we get the title, lose it for France in 1998 and make it again in 2002... I saw Germany score 7x1 in Brazil in 2014... I can say this was the BEST final for a World Cup ever! Argentina totally deserved it and I was rooting for them despite all the rivalry between us.
The plot twists we watched this time is just not common. It has been a long time since I watched such a good game and it will probably restore my feelings on watching football again. I think other Brazilians can say the same.
Thank you all who made this possible.
Disclaimer: I spent a few days in Argentina in 2011. That country and people have a special place in my heart. I learned to appreciate the sound of romance languages beyond Portuguese and took a respectful photo in Maradona's star. It is an emotional thing to see Messi make it in his last chance and Argentina get another title since 1986. Dieguito is no longer alone and I'm happy to see that in a way that is hard to explain.
Worth noting that France was deeply unlucky. Virus hit the team just before the final. Benzema and Pogba missing. And Deschamps made some questionable decisions in my view.
And Mbappe still showed up and put in one of the most heroic performances I’ve ever seen in sports, basically carrying the entire team. Really looking forward to watching his career.
Mbappe has such an insane future if he keeps it up. He could've won his 2nd worldcup and he's only 23 years old, and has already scored more goals than almost anyone in a WC, while almost entirely carrying his team. I'm glad France lost, because they have the potential to be completely dominant for another 10 years, and that's even without mbappe.
Or 1 goal and 1 penalty, the penalty executed like carbon copy three times. It was almost like kicker and goalie were working on this one execution together.
Benzema could have (should have) been a sub in the final - they even took Giroud out early! But in true French fashion they couldn’t get over their drama.
Still it let Mbappe shine and put on a legendary show
It just so happened that things went out of the script in the following 3 minutes, and then after we proceeded to watch quite possibly the best extra time played of all time, certainly in a final game.
Best final? Possibly. But only because of the unexpected 2-2 which looked impossible in the preceding 80mins. In fact, there was only 1 team that showed up for most of the first 90mins.
Had the game not gone into extra time, this would just be another lopsided game with a deserved winner. This was not a trade of blows, Rocky style.
That's kind of silly. A match doesn't have to be trading blows like Rocky for the whole 90 minutes. Stuff happens. If you have a 2-0 lead, you have to protect it for the entire game.
I get tired of things being proclaimed "the best ever" though. "It was really good" is plenty, unless you've watched every other one.
[Hi from Argentina] When it was 2-0, I expected the team to go full defense as usual in other Word Cups. I't boring because you have 10 players defending and only 1 in the other half of the field trying to use an error to make a 3rd goal. It's at the same time very boring and very nerving.
I was surprise they continue attacking, and were very close to the 3rd goal.
For a game to qualify as the "best ever", there MUST be trading blows. And I don't mean like fistfights. I mean like end to end almost-goal action. And comebacks.
Which is exactly what happened in extra time. Twice. And plenty of chances gone amiss
NO one remembers a game that ended 1-0 with nothing else happening. Its not memorable
actually, it'd be very very easy to measure with the right stat toolsets.
Simply look at XG, progressive passing, even something as basic as chances created, and i bet you will see a marked difference with other finals.
And I mean the numbers will be high, but critically, and -this is important- they will high numbers split between BOTH teams. I think stats will bear that out. Unf I don't have access to opta to get this info without paying.
Usually in Extra time you have both teams playing conservative, OR 1 team chasing the win and the other holding for dear life.
It's all about opinion, isn't it? Even if they compared yesterdays final to every other final in history there are still no objective criteria to judge.
After the first half it was a phenomenal game. I was in a pub in Peckham and despite people not particularly rooting either way the atmosphere was insane.
The amazing part is that even the second half looked like a complete bore until the 80th minute. I don't think I've ever watched a match turn around not only in the score, but also in the pace and intensity so decisively and so late. I rooted for argentina but I'm so glad Mbappe almost single handedly made the final legendary by bringing France back from the brink.
The second half was better than you think it was and will hold up under rewatching, I suspect.
In the first half, Argentina dominated possession and kept France completely on defense and just pummeled them, a boxer just getting blasted in the corner holding gloves up for dear life, super lopsided.
In the second half, from the very start, France was hungry for blood, it's just that the Argentinian defense was very strong as they had not yet really had to play much in the first half. It seemed boring because we were already thinking we saw this going 3-0, Messi sweeping up the Cup easily in the last game against a sick team stuck at their 75%. But if you are paying more attention, you will see France with the lead on possession, numerous back-and-forth pushes, lots of French pushes only to be stuck inside a “cup” of three Argentine defenders who shut it down... Then they start to get tired, leading to that first penalty (“let me just hug you in the box”), followed by the French sharks sensing the fatigue, blood in the water, a French feeding frenzy. It should hold up well I think
It's hilarious because it plays a part in the UK economy and generates tax pounds. So in way or another they are not so disconnected form the people they are booing.
Agreed! This is the most epic championship I’ve ever seen in any sport.
I was watching with a French friend and cheering for them, but I’ve got to say Argentina earned it and it would have been a shame if Messi never got a cup.
Mbappé’s hat trick was also an epic display that the torch is being passed to the next generation. Tonight was just about everything you could ask for in a game.
This doesn't give context at all. Dembele was just completely beaten. He then made contact with Di Maria from behind when there was no chance he was playing for ball. Sure the referee didn't have to call penalty but it was fair he did. A more obvious interference could have resulted in a red card.
What we call diving is likely not what someone who doesn't watch soccer would recognize as diving. It's pretty common to overdramatize fouls to get the ref to stop the game, and it's pretty accepted (although obviously extra points if you don't). This isn't actually diving but is sometimes colloquially referred to as such even by people who know better. What's actually a foul is diving when no one fouled you, which is what one of the French players did this game inside the penalty box. He got a yellow for it. The ref, besides spotting that in a split-second (impressive), was also very good at keeping the action going and only stopping if he saw an actual foul.
One does wish for less dramatization overall but you have to remember that if you keep playing the ref can rule that you did not wish to take the free kick. This is allowed since it's sometimes more advantageous. The rule is quite literally called advantage, and you don't want to take it unless it makes sense, although the ref usually makes a judgement call after a couple seconds. Still..
The debate should be settled now. In terms of trophies, Messi is the GOAT. In terms of statistics (goals, assists, dribbles), Messi is the GOAT. In terms of style of play, Messi is the GOAT. Pele, Maradona, and Cristiano are not on his level.
I'm really glad that Messi got to win his World Cup but you can't really compare players from very, very different eras. I grew up in the '80s and '90s under Diego's spell, and for that I would always see him as the greatest player ever, no matter what will happen next, but Maradona was playing a different game than what was played during Pele's time, and Messi is playing a different game compared to what used to be played in the '80s and '90s.
But, yeah, in the great scheme of things this would be the magic trio for me: Pele, Maradona, Messi, in chronological order, that is.
Pele is amazing. But he did not play in Europe where the competition was more fierce. And he was also a goal-scoring forward primarily. Messi is both one of the greatest goalscorers and one of the greatest playmakers.
At the time Europe, particularly UK, was the backwater for soccer.
Teams (and players) went to play in Uruguay exhibition matches, because that's what the best players did.
EU didn't rise as a competitive market until the late 80s.
Before that, certainly around the time of Pele, Penarol, Santos and some other south american teams ran around in CIRCLES against any european team. Look at who won the world cups! France did not even register. UK was nothing except on home soil. Spain was a backwater league. Italy was just emerging. Germany was the only country that could actually compete.
Only the Hungarians were worthy of calling themselves competition....
Fun fact: Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the controversial prime minister for Italy many times, sort of revolutionized football in Europe in the 80s when he acquired AC Milan and started spending like no tomorrow in an unprecedented way for the best international players money could buy. It’s not that before players weren’t worth a lot, Silvio Berlusconi added an order of magnitude or two to that. He also created the first “soccer team as a brand" movement. That trend - started in the 80s - continues to this day.
Looking over the winners of the early world cups, I'm trying to square the results with what you've written here (I'm not a soccer watcher): Europe won 5 out of the first 10 world cups (1930-1974); Italy won both the second and third. England won the 1966 cup, which interrupted Pele's run of World Cup wins.
Former Real Madrid and Hungary star Ferenc Puskás stated: "The greatest player in history was Alfredo Di Stéfano. I refuse to classify Pelé as a player. He was above that."
"The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better," Di Stefano told El Colombiano.
Di Stefano played over 300 games for Real Madrid, winning eight La Liga titles, and five European Champions Cups.
>After changing the rules in 1995, France Football did an extensive analysis in 2015 of the players who would have won the award if it was open for them since 1956—the year the Ballon d'Or award started. Their study revealed that Pelé would have received the award a record seven times (Ballon d'or: Le nouveau palmarès). The original recipients, however, remain unchanged.
Very different times honestly. And being a GOAT, in this context, isn't specific to the world cup. Winning a world cup basically seals the deal, but it's about a lot more than just that.
mbappe is amazing, don't get me wrong. but we are talking about the "greatest of all time" -- mbappe needs to get at least 3 "best player of the year" to get close to the kinds of messi and cristiano ronaldo
and that's while not even talking about older players like maradona, pelé and garrincha.
This. 2 penalties awarded not to him but his teammates. One amazing goal. Still an excellent player nowhere near his prime years. We'll definitely see him for the next 3 WC for sure.
Felt a bit of schadenfreude seeing Mbappe sulk and being a sore loser, especially after what he said about South American teams.
Mbappe and Giroud act too cocky, always have a face on like they're the stars of a show and the camera's on them, and a lot of the time don't feel like they're playing for the team or as a team.
Argentina on the other hand acts as the sum of a machine's parts. And though Messi is a star, he doesn't act like it on the field, appears grateful for his team, and plays as a member of a team.
Super happy Argentina won, happy to have seen the SK vs Portugal match, and happy to have seen Morocco's games. But also happy to see Mbappe sit and pout even after pulling off a hat-trick in the final game of the world cup lol
There is a picture of Argentina's goalkeeper kneeling next to Mbappe to comfort him, but that didn't get shared as much, the gesture with the prize is just a signature gesture of him and not aimed towards anyone in particular, sure it's mildly obscene but we Argentinians take everything much less seriously in that regard.
About Messi, you are leaving out the fact that he only said that as a response because Netherlands' players were encircling and saying things to Argentina's players during the penalties. Messi is precisely an extremely respectful player compared to others.
I've lived both in Europe and Argentina and I can say for sure everyone in Argentina is much more warm, homely and accepting of other nationalities than what I've seen in other countries.
You sure don't know or you don't want to compare with other cultures. While you can talk about specific Argentinian subcultures that inherit a lot of traits from other places in the world you can also say that the racism and nationalism that is alive in other countries don't have a place in Argentina. For example, slavery was abolished around 1860.
It is always great to take a look at the following paper: “Cultural Biases in Economic Exchange?” [1]
It is important to highlight that the extremely few black people that exist today in the country is living in a society that not make any racist difference.
On the other hand many indigenous people like Qom [1] are abused by politicians themselves which don’t represent general society views.
Okay let's make wild generalizations about a whole population.
I spoke of two players from the French team, not French people as a whole. If I were to say anything about the French team though, I'd say they deserve oscars for their fake injuries to kill the clock. Again, not speaking of French people or fans, just the team and in particular two players.
Saw how Argentina's goalie celebrated and agree it was in poor taste, but that does not discredit the points made in my original post regarding their team functioning as a well oiled machine rather than separate components in an incomplete machine.
What Messi said to Weghorst, hard to tell when there's one perspective given. What was reported as being said seems wildly unlikely to have sparked such a reaction. So, until more accounts from other sides are given to paint a duller picture, what was reported seems bias as hell
From what Messi said immediately after, he was rather upset at some Dutch behavior (I didn't watch the game so idk what it'd have been) and also at the referee -especially at the ref- and I guess he wasn't in a sporting mood. That's too bad because t-shirt exchanges are a nice touch :(
During the penalty shootout, where teams traditionally stay quietly on the center circle and keep to themselves, the Dutch team decided to intercept and harass the Argentine penalty takers going to the penalty stop. This kind of unsportmanship was never seen before (Dutch always innovating lol) and understandably the Argentines were quite peeved.
Yeah idk after looking into it more after the response, it seems like others are suggesting it wasn't simply the request for his shirt, but the request following bad calls by refs and provocations from the Dutch team.
Who knows what all went down, but definitely not as simple as he was being asked to exchange shirts. He had to of been either instigated prior by the other team/another player or fuming from bad calls
Messi has by far one of the worst attitudes I’ve ever seen in a star player so I have no idea where this is coming from. He was petulant, nasty, and classless at various times throughout this very tournament.
You must've been watching from a different universe in the multiverse then. Messi was class in the tournament and only responded "nastily" to the Netherlands since they were playing dirty and running their mouths disrespectfully. If you come at the King, you best not miss.
On the contrary, it amps up the intensity to the zenith. Penalty shootouts are brilliant entertainment and a great way to finish the game if tied after Extra Time.
You already had 3 of the 6 regular goals come from penalty kicks, and Messi/Mbappe get to kick them regardless of whether they were the fouled player. Absolutely seems that PKs are the dominant path to victory, I have to imagine the sports analytics community starting to focus on best strategies to maximize PKs rather than traditional goal-scoring.
Perhaps. But when the world was watching, Messi scored a PK in the quarter-final, the semi-final, and the final.
If I am coaching a national team, I am studying every game in this tournament and learning exactly what characteristics, what combo of players, what scenarios are most likely to generate PKs and going all-in with that strategy. Maybe Argentina's coach already did.
If you follow soccer you will know that diving in the box trying to get a PK is a thing since… I don’t know, PKs were added to the rule? Seriously though, I’ve seen my share of games where a player had a good chance of scoring but decide to dive and try to get a PK instead. These days, with VAR, it might not work as well as it did before.
I don't follow soccer and never will. Messi is clearly an all-time great, maybe the GOAT, but that doesn't change the fact that the penalty kicks introduce too much randomness and a lot of "punishment doesn't fit the crime." Plus the fact that Messi or Mbappe get to shoot the PK even if they weren't fouled. That's why "hack-a-Shaq" was a legit strategy, Shaq had to actually shoot the free throws despite being the worst on his team at it.
There is a story that when penalties were first introduced they were seem as unfair by both players and goalkeepers. That was because at the time, the box (or perhaps just the penalty line) used to run from side to side. Rumor has it that players, because of that sense of unfairness, would miss the penalty on purpose.
Eventually the box was reduced and now penalties are a (99%) sure way of scoring.
I don’t know why you mentioned Messi and etc., I was replying to what you said about trying to optimize for PKs during a game.
I think that's a pretty bad idea - the objective is for a team to win, having to tear apart your team every five minutes would be a very complex and niche tactical meta to master and will result in an incredibly slow paced game as lungs tire when teams get down to 7-8 players each. If teams are on even terms after 90 minutes, and cannot break the deadlock after 30 minutes of Extra Time then they're as evenly matched as possible and therefore deserve a way to win that doesn't break them physically. Whether or not they can handle it mentally is another matter [casts an eye towards England...]
I can say that as a player I can stomach a loss on penalties, I wouldn't say that I enjoy taking them but I could handle it. I would absolutely detest the idea of playing Extra Time with my teammates disappearing every few minutes.
Edit: hope it doesn’t sound like I was having a go at you for raising this proposal! On the contrary, I find it interesting when people want to tweak the game in creative ways and talk about it!
>I think that's a pretty bad idea - the objective is for a team to win
And a series of static 1v1s is more accurate than a series of 10v10s, 9v9s and so on?
People have criticized chess for pretty much the same thing wrt tie breakers for world championship, classic chess being decided by player's proficiency in a very different format and decision making.
I'm not saying I support the diminishing player count, but perhaps penalties should be deferred until another (3rd total) added extra time in the final match only. Maybe give the teams 2 extra subs if it is still tied after 2nd AET.
Yeah I honestly think it is - some extra time to try to get an edge then a series of set pieces where ultimately if they’re evenly matched everyone, even the goalkeepers, could end up taking a pen.
There’s no easy way to handle a situation like this, but utilising an already integral component of the game like penalties is probably the fairest solution, and it helps that it’s the one with the most excitement and drama for those watching. It could be much worse, before penalties a literal coin toss was used. If recall correctly teams made it thru to the European Cup (what the Champions League used to be called) final based on a coin toss
I don't know if that means the better "team" wins, but if that's the point I think is up for debate too...
Having said that in the US college hockey they do a 3 on 3 overtime. In contrast to a typical 5 v 5 game it is INTENSE. Crowd is on the edge of their seat and so on. Suddenly it's like some back yard / local ice rink where kids just get together to play style game.
It's still the same game as far as the players go, but just more space and a great pass or move to shake a defender / goal keeper is huge.
I don't know if that's the best route to go, but it really is exciting and I prefer it to shootouts by far.
> I don't know if that means the better "team" wins, but if that's the point I think is up for debate too...
Of course you should keep in mind that if you want the better team to win with a p-value of e.g. < 0.001, then you will have to play hundreds of games ...
Yeah more so in such a low scoring sport I imagine where rando outcomes are possible?
It's a constant discussion I have where folks talk about a playoff is there to determine the best team but ... that's not really how it works. Having said that, I'd rather not see an endless "regular season" where we just tally up stats and everyone just goes home after playing a ho hum game and happy that they're statistical champs ...
I like playoffs, it produces those extraordinary moments of greatness that we seem to want in sports.
This is the quintessential American take on soccer. It's ok if you're not a soccer fan. Soccer doesn't need to be like hockey or basketball, where teams can be dogshit for most of the season and still wind up as champions.
Remember that additional 20 minutes is added because it's actually time they spent not playing. So in reality they're now playing a full 90 or 120 minutes after having in the past possibly played only 75 or 100.
I think TV channels deliberately schedule optional shit after these kinds of games, the thinking being that the pundits can fill time to the next nearest half-hour slot begins then the schedule can resume
It's as if half of the people commenting here watched a soccer game for the first time today, lol. That's fine and all, but it's incredibly unlikely that a neophyte has all the solutions.
Some goalkeepers are better. Some players are better. Both can be tired, or nervous. Each flip has a different weight. Anyway, people underestimate the amount of randomness in penalties.
Oh yeah, that would have been SO much better and less controversial than a shootout. What a great way to end 120 minutes of people pouring their heart out. A coin flip
If penalties were truly random then teams wouldn't practice them. Goalkeepers wouldn't study their opponents' past penalties or use cheatsheets when facing kicks. There wouldn't be so much analysis and game theory poured into the perfect sequencing of kick-takers.
It's true that penalties test fewer skills than a full-fledged game of football. But they are still a contest of skill, not a game of chance.
People are not robots. Penalties do test the nerves of both teams. And besides, the feeling of fairness is more important than actual fairness in football. We don't watch it to get a perfectly stat driven understanding of the game, but because it's fun and emotional.
Penalties are not random at all. There is a reason why some teams suck big time on penalties while others nail them all the time (or almost always, depending on the generation, players, etc).
I meant "random" is a sense that it doesn't really reflect which team is the best in the world. Penalties is a player-specific skill, but the football is a team sport first and foremost and the world champion status should reflect that.
If all that matters is to recognize the best team, then why bother with a knockoit stage, or even a world cup tournament? Just collate stats. The point is to play the game, and if both teams are evenly matched in regular play, to move to an acceptable tiebreaker so that someone wins. France has still come a very close 2nd place, which the tournament does reflect.
France were poor up until the 75th min then showed up. Argentina thought it was in the bag at 2-0 but then France did what France do. Messi was a passenger from the 2nd half on and was out of steam in ET. France blew it late in ET with two golden chances. Winning on penalties is a crap shoot so down to luck. Mbappe was really the star of this WC Final dragging France back from the brink and nearly getting them over the line. Messi didn't have a great game from HT.
This is the narrative, but it’s far from reality. Mbappe was invisible for 80 minutes, his refusal to track back and defend in part the reason France were forced to sub off Giroud and move Mbappe into the centre.
He scored two penalties, admittedly that requires nerves of steel but it’s not particularly impressive given they’ve a high xG, and scored an excellent second goal.
Typically players are judged on their quality throughout the entire game, not a moment of quality in an otherwise drab performance, but this seems to be the modern way - the highlights are more important.
To that end Messi was involved in everything, created the second goal with an excellent through ball into space, scored twice, and set up numerous chances that Martinez was unable to finish. A far more impactful performance.
If we're gonna go that route then Emi deserves the hero title just for that save at 120+3'.. not just for how important it was, but how unlikely it was and what followed after.
It was a vital stop, and he absolutely deserved the golden glove over Lloris for it.
I’m not sure I see how it counters my argument though - had Martinez let everything past him for the first 80 minutes (not that France actually had a shot during that time, but hypothetically) whilst an excellent Argentine attack kept it level, that save alone wouldn’t cement greatness as the rest of his performance was subpar.
This is essentially the crux of my argument regarding Mbappe, he was far too quiet for far too long and didn’t play for the team often enough to deserve such plaudits.
I see what you were trying to say now, yes he was excellent and will go down in Argentine history thanks to his heroics in both the Copa and World Cup wins.
The problem with Messi is that he looks like the is watching the grass grow, or a butterfly or something. And then he makes a goal, sometimes a great goal.
Other players have a more fighting image, and they run here and there, and scream, and look more connected to the game.
The choice a nice fighting image or almost a goal per game.
As an England fan, I didn't think they were that good against us, England were the better side who just couldn't convert. The ref helped them a lot, their first goal came after they fouled an England player and they didn't even get the ball when doing so. Overall they don't actually look world cup winners playing us.
Partly luck sure, but Emi's gotten into his opponents heads quite well, if you've seen his other penalty shootouts (.. so many this WC). The little "shoot the ball away" tactic did cause the unforced error from.. one of the French players, cba to look it up.
> Mbappe has now score four times in two WC Finals. Not bad for a 23yo.
Yeah absolutely, he's taking the record for sure. He carried the team on his back. Messi's been doing that for longer though.
France were pathetic up to that point. I remember there were 0 shots on target for like 3/4th of the game. That really shouldn't have happened in a world cup final.
I thought it was more not having Kante than Pogba or Benzema. Argentina faced little to no pressure in the midfield and the only times France could really muster an attack it came through the wing-backs (namely Hernandez and then Camavinga) or even their centerhalves (Upamecano) were pushing forward and playing line-breaking passes.
France surrendered the midfield from the get-go. That midfield was key to their counter-attacking game in 2018.
Mbappe is like a combination of Ronaldo Nazario and Thierry Henry. He needs to stay injury-free, however. And at some point he will need to adapt his game to account for the eventual loss of pace that comes with age.
Mbappe is amazing, great, awesome player, hope he keep getting better and play again, this sport is like this, you can get back and win where you've once lost.
That goal was from a rebound, not as impressive as Mbappe's second goal which also happened because Messi lost possession rather lazily. And seriously Messi was literally walking even when the Argentinians were attacking. It really felt Messi was out of steam. He lost possession a lot, couldn't convert atleast two opportunities even though he got into the D and shot at the center of the goal right where the keeper was standing in the final minutes in extra time. Messi is a legend, but today Mbappe outshone him.
Definitely one of the best World Cup finals ever. Even 1/2 finals were too good. Argentina deserved their win, I missed di Maria when they replaced him, and when it was 2:2, he couldn't be there when he was needed the most. The Polish referee did amazing job as well, one must say.
Having watched every possible minute of every competition since France '98, I haven't seen any of this World Cup.
It still boggles my mind that FIFA weren't forced to overturn the decision when they were uncovered as the most corrupt organisation to ever have existed.
It's hard to have a second when Maradona himself is second. Statistically, Messi is better. Trophy-wise, Messi is better. The only area where they come close is style of play since they are both dribbling playmaking forwards.
Messi himself would tell that you're wrong, stats or no stats. Just look at this photo link [1], you've got one of the best forwards in the history of Argentinian football, Kun Aguero, carrying Messi on his shoulders just to reproduce, as an homage, that iconic Diego photo from 1986. Diego is a religion in Argentina (and not only).
Spartans are considered to be top -tier warriors of ancient world, while in the reality their actual military record is, at best, very average among their peers [0]. But they were extremely good with the PR, and have a cerrain cult following.
As argentinian i'm very happy because the team was awesome, very nice people, very good players and excellent final match against the last wc champion.
One thing that made me even happier is now i will be planning the 2026WC because at least 10 americans wants to go to see it.
I quit football a few years ago but I have to admit that this final game was exciting and full of "suspense" (I couldn't completely ignore it, I watched the extra time and penalties). I would like to cite a few facts..
1. Since the 2002 world cup in Japan/Korea, every time, if the winner is European , it got kicked out in the next tournament in the first round. 2002(France), 2010(Italy), 2014(Spain) and 2018(Germany). however, France broke the rule this time and almost won the title!
2. France had lost two finals in its history, both were in penalties (Today, and in 2006 against Italy).
3. Both Argentina and France have won the title two times so far. Argentina won the coveted trophy in 1978 and 1986 while France achieved glory in 1998 and 2018. So this final is: for whom the 3rd trophy goes? it turns out to be Argentina
4. France had the chance to join Italy (1934, 1938) and Brazil (1958,1962) to be the 3rd Team to win two World Cups successively, but failed.
Argentina dominated most of the game up until France scored. Was a very fun game to watch.
I'm pretty sure Argentina's 3rd goal should have been revoked after a VAR review. Messi looks off-side for the second to last pass that starts the play. I assume VAR reviewed the ball on the goal line and the last pass but didn't look at the pass that started the play right before?
I wish the reviews were televised. We get to see the referees making decisions, why not the VAR communication too?
Messi was offside on the initial pass to Martinez (which you can't really see in the clip because of the close-up shot) but was back onside by the time Martinez passed it back to Messi (which you do see). So it's a good goal.
They did replay the entire sequence on the US Fox broadcast without the close-up.
What is it with americans and "our football" this year? :) Looks like the US is way more into football than i thought. Everyone seemed so taken with Messi. But the truth is the MVP of this final is Mbappé
Truth be told if he was he MVP they would have won. Instead he contributed substantially to France being down 0-2 in the first place, a deficit if they were without they would have won handily. His defensive work rate was worse than Messi who is 12 years his senior and has one foot out the door to retirement already. This caused Giroud to be swapped out and Mbappe to be moved more centrally so they could make up for his unwillingness to track back. Arguably this was also why Di Maria was able to completely savage the left wing, forcing the penalty out of Dembele.
He scored when he got the ball and that is great but he isn't yet the complete player that Messi is. Messi got the MVP today because he won the match for his team, through yes, a goal and a penalty but more importantly through drawing out space for Di Maria to generate the opportunities that created that initial lead.
I was in Berlin for the last World Cup. It was delightful
to experience it like that.
This time I tracked it and really enjoyed the whole thing. The finals was the only game I was able watch in full and it was everything I hoped it would be.
Argentina wins, but I'm not sure if the guys hosting it (spit) have accrued any goodwill after all the deaths and abuses they inflicted on poor migrants to get their way.
And news just in, they tried to buy off the VP of the European Union last week too.
It was a great final, exciting and fun to watch, at least towards the end. As a World Cup edition, though, I found it a disappointing one. It might be that the unusual season when it was played made physical skills more important than usual, not sure. It was difficult to find good, modern football though (beside maybe with Brazil, but they self sabotaged them in a few minutes folly). In general, it seemed that the whole world wanted Messi to win and we eventually had that.
The fact that the two (possibly three) top players of the tournament played for the same club is something to ponder about I feel.
As someone who works in football statistics, it will be sad when we have to move on to a more rigorous form of model evaluation than “is Messi at the top?”
it was an incredible game. Argentina was cruising along nicely till 79mins and then the penalty happened and a minute later an equalizer. who would have thought that. followed by an engaging 30mins of overtime. wow. as a neutral, it was entertaining. Happy for Messi.
Argentina fan here. I was too young to really remember their victory in 1986. Saw them lose in the 1990 and 2014 finals. Can't tell you what it means to win today.
I went through hell but I feel like I watched a truly extraordinary match. Maybe the best ever? The drama, the changes in fortune, Messi finally doing it, emulating Maradona in 1986, Mbappe getting a hat trick and not being on the winning side. The game was also a handing of the flame of world's greatest to Mbappe and, of course, the completion of Messi's trophy cabinet.
It was clash of the titans, Mbappe vs Messi. Fifa and the Qataris could not have scripted a better final. Unreal. I'm still in shock hours later.
It's strange because we had like 4 or 5 ways to see it, and each one has a different delay. So I can hears the goals like 30 seconds before it's in mytv
We went in expecting nothing. But honestly despite whoever won this was the most exciting football World Cup final that my friends and I ever watched together. Loved the experience. What a match.
Congratulations on all the hard work that made this possible!
I mean the work of the quasi-enslaved migrant laborers who built the stadiums in 100-degree heat, of course. But I'm sure Argentina put in plenty of effort too.
Does it bug anyone else that they don't play enough games to actually reasonably determine 2nd and 3rd place among the 4 semi-finalists?
The current system of having two teams that win in the semi-finals play a game to determine the final winner, and the two teams that lose in the semi-finals play a third place play-off only actually determines who is 1st (the winner of the final) and who is 4th (the loser of the third place play off).
In years like this one, where the winner of the third play play-off (Croatia) loses in the semi-finals to the eventual winner of the final (Argentina), we get no information on how they compare to the loser of the final (France).
In years where the winner of the third place play off played the loser of the final in the semi-finals, we then do have enough information to rank all 4. The winner of the finals is #1 with no losses, the loser of the final and the winner of the third place play-off both have 1 loss, but they played each other in the final so we can order them, giving the loser of the final 2nd place, the winner of the third place play-off 3rd place, and the loser of that 4th place.
In years like this one, we are missing that game between the loser of the final and the winner of the third place playoff, who both have 1 loss, to order them, so all we can reasonable say this year is Argentina is in 1st, France and Croatia are 2nd and 3rd but we don't know which is which, and Morocco is 4th.
I suppose as a practical matter they don't want to have a France/Croatia game to figure it out because that game would come after the final and they want the final to be the last. But why not determine who gets 2nd and who gets 3rd by applying the tie breaks they use in the group stage?
I don't think most of the players really care. Watch the body language of France after they lost: second means nothing to them. Some of them ripped their medal off as soon as they got it.
Isn't it the world cup where both genders are allowed but women don't make it into the teams because their bodies aren't as performant when brought to the limit? I don't think there's a rule disallowing women, is there?
It certainly is true in Montréal. There is a huge french diaspora here, but immigrants in general have been closely following the WC. That has also been making soccer a lot more popular amongst non immigrants, and I see a lot more quebecers following the world cup than even 4 years ago. It's just such a ridiculously catchy event, even for a lot of those who usually don't like soccer in general.
The people who were talking about it are not in Seattle. Which is interesting as we're one of the host cities for the next one, you'd think there would be pre hype.
If I was in a Seattle only bubble without friends from over seas or who immigrated yes I would not have seen or heard about the world cup.
Maybe if it was on after 1pm here I'd have seen it in a bar, but nope watched a sun belt conference Duluth trading bowl game instead.
Pretty much irrelevant where I am at. It wasn't even on a main TV station and then they cut the coverage to go to NFL coverage right after the penalty kicks.
The biggest problem is that soccer and American football are both Fall sports in American high school. A great athlete needs a special love for soccer to not end up playing on the American football team. American football in high school has all the prestige.
Christian Pulisic is a great example. If he has a different upbringing there is a good chance he is playing American Football as a wide receiver.
Here in the U.S. this is also the main women's event.
(The women's team will receive more money from the men's team as charity this year than they will earn in the next women's world cup, even if they win it.)
> The FIFA World Cup, often simply called the World Cup, is an international association football competition contested by the senior men's national teams of the members of the Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA), the sport's global governing body.
>FIFA competitions are separated for men and women. This separation must be safeguarded and protected.
I messed up here by trusting the first results on google while searching "can women play in the world cup" which brought up a bunch of Quora results saying that they can. I was a bit too eager to believe them because this is a thing in many other sports.
Game felt staged and considering the stakes...have a feeling it was fixed. But Im likelt wrong and I hope I am.
Miracles happen in football - like Liecester City lifting the EPL, a moment etched in the history of the sport. Croatia and Morrocco are warriors, happy for them too.
“Soccer” comes from the original name of the game: “Association Football” - a game whose rules were set by the “Football Association” back in 1863.
From WP: Soccer was a term used by the upper class whereas the working and middle classes preferred the word "football"; as the upper class lost influence in British society from the 1960s on, "football" supplanted "soccer" as the most commonly used and accepted word.
It's not the fault of North American soccer fans that the international word for their game was already taken by another sport. What else are they supposed to do?
American football (gridiron) has the same roots as association football and rugby. They didn't randomly or illogically decide to call it "football"[1] when American universities first started playing it in the 19th century. Over time they changed rules to put more emphasis on throwing and catching, and less on kicking.
And Italy doesn't call it "football" either - they call it "calcio". What's your position on that?
This comment is like low quality empty calories. This is a fake debate largely from misunderstanding and misinformation (which a sibling comment has already provided historical context). Can we just move on and talk about the game/match?
The plot twists we watched this time is just not common. It has been a long time since I watched such a good game and it will probably restore my feelings on watching football again. I think other Brazilians can say the same.
Thank you all who made this possible.
Disclaimer: I spent a few days in Argentina in 2011. That country and people have a special place in my heart. I learned to appreciate the sound of romance languages beyond Portuguese and took a respectful photo in Maradona's star. It is an emotional thing to see Messi make it in his last chance and Argentina get another title since 1986. Dieguito is no longer alone and I'm happy to see that in a way that is hard to explain.