The debate should be settled now. In terms of trophies, Messi is the GOAT. In terms of statistics (goals, assists, dribbles), Messi is the GOAT. In terms of style of play, Messi is the GOAT. Pele, Maradona, and Cristiano are not on his level.
I'm really glad that Messi got to win his World Cup but you can't really compare players from very, very different eras. I grew up in the '80s and '90s under Diego's spell, and for that I would always see him as the greatest player ever, no matter what will happen next, but Maradona was playing a different game than what was played during Pele's time, and Messi is playing a different game compared to what used to be played in the '80s and '90s.
But, yeah, in the great scheme of things this would be the magic trio for me: Pele, Maradona, Messi, in chronological order, that is.
Pele is amazing. But he did not play in Europe where the competition was more fierce. And he was also a goal-scoring forward primarily. Messi is both one of the greatest goalscorers and one of the greatest playmakers.
At the time Europe, particularly UK, was the backwater for soccer.
Teams (and players) went to play in Uruguay exhibition matches, because that's what the best players did.
EU didn't rise as a competitive market until the late 80s.
Before that, certainly around the time of Pele, Penarol, Santos and some other south american teams ran around in CIRCLES against any european team. Look at who won the world cups! France did not even register. UK was nothing except on home soil. Spain was a backwater league. Italy was just emerging. Germany was the only country that could actually compete.
Only the Hungarians were worthy of calling themselves competition....
Fun fact: Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the controversial prime minister for Italy many times, sort of revolutionized football in Europe in the 80s when he acquired AC Milan and started spending like no tomorrow in an unprecedented way for the best international players money could buy. It’s not that before players weren’t worth a lot, Silvio Berlusconi added an order of magnitude or two to that. He also created the first “soccer team as a brand" movement. That trend - started in the 80s - continues to this day.
Looking over the winners of the early world cups, I'm trying to square the results with what you've written here (I'm not a soccer watcher): Europe won 5 out of the first 10 world cups (1930-1974); Italy won both the second and third. England won the 1966 cup, which interrupted Pele's run of World Cup wins.
Former Real Madrid and Hungary star Ferenc Puskás stated: "The greatest player in history was Alfredo Di Stéfano. I refuse to classify Pelé as a player. He was above that."
"The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better," Di Stefano told El Colombiano.
Di Stefano played over 300 games for Real Madrid, winning eight La Liga titles, and five European Champions Cups.
>After changing the rules in 1995, France Football did an extensive analysis in 2015 of the players who would have won the award if it was open for them since 1956—the year the Ballon d'Or award started. Their study revealed that Pelé would have received the award a record seven times (Ballon d'or: Le nouveau palmarès). The original recipients, however, remain unchanged.
Very different times honestly. And being a GOAT, in this context, isn't specific to the world cup. Winning a world cup basically seals the deal, but it's about a lot more than just that.
mbappe is amazing, don't get me wrong. but we are talking about the "greatest of all time" -- mbappe needs to get at least 3 "best player of the year" to get close to the kinds of messi and cristiano ronaldo
and that's while not even talking about older players like maradona, pelé and garrincha.
This. 2 penalties awarded not to him but his teammates. One amazing goal. Still an excellent player nowhere near his prime years. We'll definitely see him for the next 3 WC for sure.
